Preamble

The House met at half-past Two o'clock

PRAYERS

[Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair]

RETIREMENT OF SPEAKER

2.35 p.m.

Mr. Speaker: I wish to say something to the House in amplification of my statement 14 days ago indicating my intention to relinquish this office.
I begin by thanking all those who have served the House and myself during my period of office. I shall not name anyone, thereby maintaining my record while in the Chair. I want to thank my Deputy Chairmen and the Panel. I am grateful to the Departments of the Clerk and the Serjeant at Arms, the Library staff and Hansard, the Vote Office, the police and custodians, the staff of the Refreshment Department and all those engaged in the maintenance and cleaning arrangements in the House, people not always in the public eye but who do a great deal to keep this building functioning. Last, but not least, I am under a special debt to my personal staff.
As to the House itself, one of my illustrious predecessors, Speaker Lowther, who left this office in 1921 after 15 years' service, said that he was conscious that he had obtained the confidence of the House during the early period of his Speakership and was grateful for its continuance. He went on to say that he had sought to preserve the authority and dignity of the Chair and had endeavoured to construe the rules with common sense and without pedantry, although he had been slow to mark what was said amiss. Although the House was not a perfect institution, it was admirably fashioned to express the will of a high-spirited and free people.
Having listened to yesterday's debate, or part of it, and having read the rest of it in the Official Report, I am quite certain that I should not be able today to

get away with saying that the House is admirably fashioned. I think that the House is aware of its collective faults—long-windedness, sedentary interruptions, points of order which are not points of order, inability to scrutinise Bills and Statutory Instruments as they should be scrutinised and many other matters which were pointed out yesterday.
On the credit side, however, I think that most hon. Members work extremely hard, and they are a very important, and increasingly important, link between the ordinary citizen and Government Departments and public bodies. They at least can get an answer even though it may not always be a satisfactory one. Although the volume of business means that the check on legislation is far from being as good as it should be, Ministers can be questioned, they can be called to account, and if a majority of the House so decides, it can turn the Government out. These are not inconsiderable matters. Therefore, although politicians as a species have never been popular, do not let us denigrate ourselves too much.
My final admonition is that I hope that every hon. Member will study the fascinating debate we had yesterday. At one stage I nearly decided to change my mind and stay on. However, I am resigning, and doing so primarily because I think that five years is as long as anyone should be expected to occupy this office with its many strains and stresses.
Having made that decision, I had to consider my position as a Member of Parliament. I firmly believe that the Speaker should be elected for a constituency, as are other hon. Members, so as to keep personally in touch with the hopes and fears and the personal and individual needs of many thousands of ordinary men and women, meeting them face to face from time to time, and to know the problems of the area which he represents.
To mark the fact that I am an ordinary Member I have decided, as is my right, to stay on as a Member of this House. [HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] I am grateful for that response. I have also noticed the uneasiness on the surfaces of the usual channels at the prospect of having yet another floating voter. Although I shall stay on, it will be only for a few days. This time next week,


or thereabouts, I hope to be unprofitably employed either in the Chiltern Hundreds of Stoke, Desborough and Burnham or perhaps in the Manor of Northstead.
Finally, and very seriously and sincerely, I want to thank the House for its tolerance and kindness.

2.39 p.m.

The Prime Minister (Mr. Harold Wilson): I beg to move,
That this House tenders its gratitude to the right hon. Selwyn Lloyd for his skilful, reasonable and firm guidance of our affairs; offers thanks for his personal kindnesses, hospitality and friendship; records appreciation of the clarity of his decisions and his success in achieving fairness to all Members; and unites in wishing him well on his retirement from the Chair to which he has brought such distinction.
Having spoken once from that Bench, Mr. Speaker, and twice from this one to express my own pleasure and that of my right hon. and hon. Friends at your election to the Chair, I know that I shall be representing the views of Members on both sides of the House, and of all parties in the House, when I express the sense of loss we all feel arising from your decision, now confirmed as an irrevocable intention, to retire from the Chair.
The whole House will appreciate the emotion you must have felt as you addressed the remarks you have just made to the House. After just over five years in your high office—an office which, as some of us have pointed out on past occasions when you have been elected to the Chair, is often lonely and always onerous—your feeling that the time has come to relinquish the responsibilities and burdens which you have borne with such distinction is one with which the House may sympathise and share.
This is our opportunity to give full expression to the debt of gratitude owed by the House to you personally for the way in which you have presided over our proceedings during the last five years. It is the Government's intention to move a suitable motion in the House later today to mark your retirement, but it is appropriate now to pay tribute to the many skills which you, Mr. Speaker, have brought to the Chair.
You have presided over the deliberations of this House in three successive Parliaments, each very different in character—one where there was an

assured and substantial majority for one party, another characterised at the time as a Parliament of minorities, and this Parliament with its blend of minority parties and a small—but enduring—overall majority.
To each Parliament you have brought not just the traditional virtues which the House has come to expect of its Speakers—impartiality, fairness, tolerance and a properly stern sense of the dignity and good reputation of this House, as well as what we have always called for, the occasional temporary attack of total deafness and selective deficiencies of sight. You have also shown qualities which are more personal to you—qualities of wit, good humour and charm—which have both lightened and enlivened the work of the House.
For those of us whose memories go back a few years in this House—I have no doubt of this—there will be total agreement that you have fully upheld the very high standards which all the postwar occupants of the Chair have maintained in the service of this House.
To others—I think particularly here of the two new intakes of Members of Parliament elected in 1974, who have known no other Speaker, and those, newly elected in 1970, for whom you have been Speaker for all but a very brief period in their parliamentary careers—you will be particularly remembered. The first Speaker one has known—the Speaker who first led one past the pitfalls of the rules of order, so forbidding to a new Member—becomes, of course, for each Member of Parliament the embodiment of all future occupants of the Chair.
The whole House will feel the loss of a Speaker who has always given so generously of his time and wisdom to help us all—senior Members, Privy Counsellors, those elected for the first time, the officials of the House, and visitors to this House from home and overseas. As individual Members we have benefited from your knowledge and experience, but as a House we have been enriched by the way in which you have presided over our deliberations.
It was on the last occasion when you were elected to the Chair, Mr. Speaker, that I acknowledged that your conduct of the Speakership had finally converted me from my view—indeed, it was a view


held for over a century by the House itself—that a senior ex-Minister should not be elected as Speaker. When one was so elected some years ago there was much criticism in this House, but, Mr. Speaker, because of your conduct of the Chair, many of us have changed our views.
You have also been a Speaker during five years of changes and developments in our procedures—perhaps in some ways it has been a time of more rapid change than we have known in the whole postwar period—in which you have not been ready merely to acquiesce in change but ready also to take an active interest in promoting a more dynamic rôle for Parliament.
You have taken risks. You have created precedents. One that I particularly remember was on a point of order I raised about the operation of the sub judice rule in the case of the thalidomide children. Following your ruling, a subsequent report of the Select Committee on Procedure enabled the House to approve a noteworthy change in our rules and practices. But that, Sir, is only one example.
All of us have benefited from your ability to maintain the dignity and continuity of this House while endorsing change, and at times initiating change by your individual rulings—the most recent, in fact, and an important one, at the beginning of this very parliamentary Session—and in so doing refreshing the practices and procedures of this House.
I have said that the life of Mr. Speaker is a lonely rôle. You have not lacked friends from all parties. Your concern for individual Members, your guidance and help—and your willingness to seek advice—have been of benefit to each of us and to the collective welfare of the House as a whole. As you vacate the Chair for what we all hope will be a vigorous and happy retirement—I have no doubt at all that it will be vigorous—you take with you our best wishes and the warm affection and deep regard of this House.

2.47 p.m.

Mrs. Margaret Thatcher: I rise, Mr. Speaker, wholeheartedly to support the Prime Minister in the motion that he has moved.

As the curtain comes down on this most distinguished period of your long and eventful career, I should like to extend to you the affection, gratitude and good wishes of my right hon. and hon. Friends and myself and to say how moving it was to hear you read the Prayers yourself at the beginning of our proceedings today.
In the Shakespearean phrase, you have played many parts. In any one of those parts, most people would have been glad to reach the height which you have attained in all of them. You have been a successful lawyer, a distinguished wartime soldier, a prominent politician, holding some of the highest offices of State, and, most recently, Mr. Speaker of the Mother of Parliaments—a position which, for two centuries of our history, ranked as First Commoner in the land. In case the Shakesperean allusion suggests otherwise, however, let me say that I believe you achieved eminence in each of your parts by dint of dedication and professional competence.
You served the House of Commons in many ways before becoming Speaker—as Leader of the House, and as Chairman of the Committee of Privileges and of the Services Committee.
You have served your country in time of war, to ensure that the Parliament of a free people may continue to meet in free debate. You have served it in peace time, particularly through voluntary work.
Just as the historian has trouble in keeping pace with your career, so have many of your colleagues—some younger than you—had difficulty in keeping up with you in the long-distance walks that you have undertaken on behalf of charity.
You have served your Church, in the tradition of your family. Indeed, Mr. Speaker, it would seem that Methodism bestows certain qualities on a man to make him most fit for Speaker. We must avoid this becoming a necessary qualification.
But it is of your Speakership that we specifically think today. You have presided over three Parliaments, two of which have involved small Government majorities, and you have had to use your casting vote. You have witnessed the passage of hard-fought legislation, with the heightening of tension—and temperature—that this produces, but, as evidence of


your patient control over our proceedings and our emotions, you have never resorted to the ultimate weapon of suspending an individual Member—a record to which you have referred and of which we know you must be justifiably proud.
You have, instead, exercised that very necessary quality of humour to break the tension—a humour that was always backed by sound judgment and swift decision. One of your most important weapons has been your pencil, tapping away in criticism of the "selfishness of the long-winded", indicating that time was passing and that many more right hon. and hon. Members had indicated their wish to speak.
You once remarked that the Chair had a memory—a warning which, if newspapers are correct, is backed up by a red ledger—your special little "Red Book" recording not the sayings of Members but the length of time that they took to say them.
While we honour you today as our Speaker, may I and my right hon. and hon. Friends on the Opposition side of the House thank you, as one of our Members, for your years of friendship, encouragement and guidance?
The office of Speaker commands our loyalty and support. Only the holder of this office can gain what you will take away with you today—our love and admiration. We shall miss you, our most devoted and faithful servant.

2.50 p.m.

Mr. Jeremy Thorpe: Five years ago, Mr. Speaker, I was fortunate enough to catch your eye, as Speaker-elect, and to wish you in your very difficult task—your very great, your very important and your very lonely task—every possible success.
I do not see why we should balk the fact that your election was not exactly what might be called tranquil, and you yourself, on 12th January 1971, passed the remark:
… my political past has not been entirely free from controversy."—[Official Report, 12th January 1971; Vol. 809, c. 25.]
Indeed, we had the second contested election since 1895. If you thought that then, how wrong you would be to think

it now, because there is no doubt that the whole House today salutes you as a Speaker who has been firm and impartial and who has upheld every one of the traditions of this House.
It is high praise indeed to say of a man that he brought to the Speakership all the qualities that were required of the occupant of the Chair, but I believe that it is even rarer to say that a man brought additional qualities to the Chair which enhanced and increased the prestige of the Chair itself. I believe, with respect, that you have done that.
Your powers, of course, are severely limited. John Wilkes once asked Mr. Speaker Onslow what was the effect of naming Members. The Speaker replied, "The Lord in Heaven only knows." In fact, the authority of the Speaker rests upon his ability to gain the confidence of his fellow Members of Parliament and their respect for his fairness, and the fact that he is held in the highest regard. By that test, your authority has been immense.
But it is not the task of the Speaker to wield power in an authoritarian sense. He has to gauge the temper of the House. He has to deal with a situation in which, from a moment of tranquillity, the House is cast into turbulence. He has to take not only the right decision but a decision that is based on common sense, not without humour, and sometimes with the necessary degree of firmness. That you have also achieved.
You have done something else; you have sought to see that in our debates all shades of opinion were fairly represented. Minorities within parties have always existed, and this has been something that all Speakers have come to accept. But in a situation now, in which there are more parties than there have been in 50 years, you have suggested that perhaps our procedures have not caught up as quickly as you would have wished. But it has been your task to see that, with the fairness with which you have held the ring, all shades of opinion have fairly been recognised. The scrupulous fairness is something for which I, as a member of a minority party, feel deeply grateful.
We do not know what the future holds for you, Mr. Speaker. We hope that you will not be too far away from us in this House.


The first Welshman—the first of your distinguished race—to become Speaker of this House was Mr. William Williams of Llantrisant, in 1680. He was Recorder of Chester. You started as Recorder of Wigan. Mr. Williams had a rather more tempestuous career than you did. He had to expel two Members, the second of whom was Sir Robert Peyton. He knelt in front of the Speaker and, after a few well-chosen words from the Speaker—words of a highly partisan nature—he was expelled. At the Dissolution he was unwise enough to challenge Mr. Speaker to a duel. Mr. Speaker reported Sir Robert Peyton to the Privy Council, and he was committed to the Tower. You, Sir, have had no such grave problems.
You have held many, if not almost all, of the great offices of State. In that capacity you have been a great servant of the Crown. You have also, in perhaps some of the less glamorous positions—as Chairman of the Services Committee and of the Committee of Privileges, Leader of the House and, finally, Speaker of this House—also been the servant of the House of Commons. Your first great joy must be that never again will you have to listen to a speech as a matter of duty, but your second great joy must be that in serving Parliament you have served the cause of democracy. Therefore, those outside this House who believe in democracy have cause to salute you.
It remains only for us to assure you of our gratitude, our good wishes and our deep affection.

2.56 p.m.

Mr. Donald Stewart: On behalf of my hon. Friends, Mr. Speaker, may I associate myself with the fitting tributes which have been expressed by other right hon. Members today and convey our sense of loss at your departure from the Speakership?
We are grateful for your fair and helpful attitude to us in the Chamber at all times and for your courtesy and unfailing assistance on the occasions on which we have had to see you in your office.
We were glad also that our views on the rights of minorities to be heard so often coincided with your own views.
Speaking as a Back Bencher—and this has not been mentioned so far—I think that it should be put on record that your

interest in and your work on behalf of Back Benchers in improving amenities and working conditions in this House will be of great assistance to Members in the future.
As has been said already, you have occupied many high offices of State and these, of their nature, have been controversial at times. It is a fitting tribute, therefore, that in spite of that you have, as the coping stone of your career, occupied the high office of Speaker of this House.
May I convey to your our thanks and our very best wishes for the future?

2.58 p.m.

Mr. J. Enoch Powell: It is a privilege which may fittingly be claimed by members of minorities and even small minorities in this House to join in the tribute to that servant of the House whose especial care is for the rights of individual Members and for the rights of minorities, however small. We know how faithfully you have discharged that part of your duty, Mr. Speaker.
It might seem impossible, in respect to an office which has existed for 600 years and more at the centre of our constitution, for any individual occupant of it to shed lustre on that place. Yet you have done so.
Others have come to your Chair after occupying office. Others have left it to occupy office subsequently, including—and this may perhaps have caused a twinge when you announced your intention to remain a Member of the House —the Prime Ministership. You alone in the history of the Speakership have come from a series of the most distinguished offices of State to occupy that Chair as the crown and culmination of your career. By doing so you have enhanced —for it is still possible—the prestige and the honour of that place.
None of us believes that you will disappear from public life after today, but any office which comes afterwards will be a step down from the Speakership. Today, as by your own will you make that renunciation, all of us who have sat under you join in our tribute of thanks and of affection.

3.1 p.m.

Mr. Gwynfor Evans: It is natural that I, too, should wish to


emphasise that one of the most important functions of your office, Mr. Speaker, is the protection of minorities and to ensure that they can contribute to debates and take part in the deliberations of the House. I am glad to testify, and I do so with gratitude, that your deep commitment to this most important function has enabled all the minorities of this House to take a full part in the debates of the House. You have protected the minorities and ensured for them a fair hearing in the deliberations of the House.
The pleasure I have in paying you this brief but sincere tribute is enhanced by the thought of your Welsh ancestry. In wishing you health and happiness in your retirement I hope that I may, on this occasion, address to you an englyn in the oldest British tongue, Welsh, which is normally ruled out of order in the proceedings of the House but in which I hope you will take some pride:
Ti'r gwr fu'n feistr a gwas—yn llywydd
Ac yn llaw gymwynas,
Dy erwau'n driw i'r hen dras
A gerddaist gydag urddas.
That means:
Thou the man who has been both master and servant—a chieftain Whose hand has granted many boons, Thy ways true to the old lineage, Thou hast trodden them with dignity.

3.3 p.m.

Mr. Edward du Cann: I am proud to support this motion and, naturally enough, chiefly in English. Yet this is the first occasion in all my time in this place that I should truly have preferred not to catch your eye, Mr. Speaker. For whatever facility or whatever competence any one of us may have developed over the years in fulfilling that dreadful invitation in our constituencies and elsewhere to say just a few words suitable for the occasion—you know the sort of thing so well, Sir—it is so much harder when the words one speaks come not from obligation but from the heart.
Hail then and farewell, those old words: Ave atque vale. However warmly we may welcome your successor, as indeed we shall, all of us on these Back Benches are sadly conscious that we say au revoir today to one who above all has been our best friend and counsellor.

A Speaker walks alone and yet never did a lone walker have so many true friends. I am only one of many, Mr. Speaker, who have received much kindness at your hands and have been the richer and wiser for your friendship and your counsel. Perhaps I may quote one personal example. When I was appointed a Treasury Minister in the summer of 1962 your letter of good wishes and congratulations was almost the first that I received. To write in the terms that you did at that moment was an act of the greatest personal generosity, unforgettable indeed, and, all will agree, quite typical.
Alas, I have to remark on one shadow between us since that time—your complaint that by my marrying a constituent of yours I deprived you of a vote. Sir, I cannot regret or apologise for that but forgive me at last that impertinence if you will on this your final day. At least I know at first hand from my family the immense respect and affection felt for you in the North-West of England, on Merseyside and especially in your own constituency. Their only rival in our nation is in the membership of this House of Commons.
So, Sir, for your long service to our State, for the public weal; for your incomparable service to the House of Commons, your sympathy with the Back Benchers and their many problems, and above all for being such a good listener, our very best thanks indeed. For the future, my dear—as we say in the West Country—our very best wishes.

Mr. Speaker: I think I now have to put the motion. I have been thinking about the procedure and wondered whether the Chair itself might move the closure.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved, nemine contradicente,
That this House tenders its gratitude to the Rt. Hon. Selwyn Lloyd for his skilful, reasonable and firm guidance of our affairs; offers thanks for his personal kindnesses, hospitality and friendship; records appreciation of the clarity of his decisions and his success in achieving fairness to all Members; and unites in wishing him well on his retirement from the Chair to which he has brought such distinction.

ELECTION OF SPEAKER

The Prime Minister (Mr. Harold Wilson): Mr. Speaker, I have to acquaint the House that Her Majesty, having been informed of the wish of Mr. Speaker to relinquish his office, gives leave to the House to proceed forthwith to the choice of a new Speaker.

3.8 p.m.

Mr. G. R. Strauss: I beg to move,
That the right honourable George Thomas do take the Chair of this House as Speaker.
I very much regret having to move this motion today. I do not propose to add anything to the eloquent words contained in the resolution which we have just passed and in the speeches which have supported it except to express my personal thanks, Mr. Speaker, and especially those of all Back Benchers, for the consideration, help and sympathy you have given to us during your years of Speakership.
I have moved many motions in this House but none more gladly and confidently than this one—gladly because it is likely to result in one whom I have liked and increasingly admired over 30 years becoming the Speaker of this House, and confidently because, in contrast to most of the motions I have moved in the House, this one is likely to be carried unanimously and enthusiastically. It will certainly be carried with enthusiasm by those who have witnessed the fairness, firmness and the Puckish humour with which my right hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, West (Mr. Thomas) has presided over many parliamentary Committees and recently over this House.
The motion will be accepted with enthusiasm by all those who have witnessed the quick wit, which rivals yours, Mr. Speaker, by which my right hon. Friend has been able, and will in future, I am sure, be able, to defuse a near-explosive situation and restore harmony and good will where a few minutes before there was conflict and anger.
Although many of us know my right hon. Friend as a parliamentary colleague, few apart from those of his Welsh compatriots know much

about his background, his extramural activities and those things in his life which, in the modern jargon, make him tick. In the belief that these are important matters which should be within the knowledge of the House, I propose to state them briefly and selectively.
My right hon. Friend's father was a miner who died when my right hon. Friend was a small boy. The three great influences in his life have been his Church, his party and, maybe above all, his mother—a remarkable woman known with effection throughout Wales as "Mam"—who has fully shared her son's public life.
Next in influence has been his Methodist Church, which became, as it did with so many rebellious spirits in Wales at that time, his political nursery. Throughout his adolescence 80 per cent. of the men in the valley in which he lived were unemployed, and the consequential suffering which he saw around him left an indelible mark on his mind.
As a lay preacher he has preached for 40 years in almost every town in Wales, and sometimes in the United States. He attained the highest office open to a layman when he became Vice-President of the Methodist Conference. He was the first Member of Parliament to do so.
My right hon. Friend became a teacher and spent two years at University College, Southampton. Later he taught in the Old Kent Road in London—just outside my constituency—where he spent many evenings queueing for a place in our Public Gallery.
My right hon. Friend early became active in politics on his home ground, and he is still affectionately remembered for the active part that he played in the battle to get rid of the leasehold system in Wales, where its incidence was particularly grievous and widespread.
Finally, as a result of his participation in local politics, my right hon. Friend was elected the Member for Cardiff, West in 1945. But he played no leading rôle here for many years. It was feared at one time that his parliamentary career would be over before it had started, because shortly after his election he went to Greece, then torn by civil war, and fell into the hands of Communists, who held him captive for many weeks. There was at that time good reason to fear that he had been killed.


My right hon. Friend's rise up the parliamentary ladder started when he became a member of the Chairmen's Panel in 1951. He remained a member until 1964. This long period of apprenticeship probably makes him the most experienced Chairman ever to become Speaker.
In 1964 my right hon. Friend was appointed a member of the Government, first as Joint Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department for two years, then in 1966 as Minister of State, Welsh Office, and then as Minister of State for Commonwealth Affairs. From 1968 to 1970 he was Secretary of State for Wales. While he was at the Welsh Office the Aberfan disaster occurred, and when he went among the stricken relatives of the victims his warm and friendly approach to people—an outstanding feature of his character—was tremendously appreciated and has never been forgotten.
I am told that he was a popular Minister with his civil servants, not only because of his personality but because of the successful and often unorthodox ways by which he advanced his departmental interests in the Cabinet.
My right hon. Friend played an important part in the Investiture of the Prince of Wales at Caernarvon in 1969. He has represented Cardiff, West in this House for 30 years. He was made a Freeman of that city last year with his right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary, who is sitting next to him and who became the Member for Cardiff, South-East at the same 1945 election.
My right hon. Friend was already a Freeman of the borough of Rhondda, in which lies Tonypandy, his home town. He once bought a tie there at the local Co-op which caused some hilarity on the Benches opposite when he wore it in the House shortly afterwards. Unbeknown to him, it was an exact copy of the Old Etonian tie.
My right hon. Friend has been Deputy Speaker and Chairman of Ways and Means since 1974. His behaviour in the Chair during that testing period has given convincing proof that he possesses to the full the qualities which this House expects of its Speaker.
In electing him to the Chair we are doing him a great honour—the greatest honour this House can accord to any

of its Members. In doing so, however, we all appreciate that we are imposing upon him severe hardship. Not only will he have to listen hour after hour to speeches in this House from whose repetitiveness all other Members are able to escape when they want, but he will have to undertake much arduous work behind the scenes.
Perhaps the greatest sacrifice that we are imposing upon him is one which, with his temperament, must be particularly irksome. Being an exceptionally sociable person, he will sadly miss the company of his colleagues by his withdrawal to the comparative seclusion to which a Speaker must unfortunately retire. And his colleagues will equally miss his company. He will no longer be be able to enliven the Tea Room with the quip and banter of which he is a master. If at any time one heard laughter at one of the tables, one could be pretty certain that the right hon. Member for Cardiff, West was one of the company.
But anyone would make a mistake if he thought that, because of my right hon. Friend's geniality and love of fun, there was anything soft about him. On the contrary, on matters of principle on which he feels keenly, on the ethical and social issues which are engraved deeply in his heart, he is tough and inflexible.
I prophesy that he will make an admirable, if rather unorthodox, Speaker. He lacks the advantages of a legal training, but this, I believe, will be compensated by his reserves of common sense, his long experience in the Chair and his deep sense of justice.
It is usual, Mr. Speaker, when a Member proposes a new Speaker, to offer him advice. I have always considered this rather presumptuous. Nevertheless I intend to follow precedent. But my advice is simple and can be stated in a sentence. It is that in all matters my right hon. Friend should as far as possible emulate you, Sir, the outgoing Speaker, because in my vew, although all the Speakers I have known during the near half century that I have been a Member of this House have been good, none has been as good as yourself or as universally respected.
We can be confident, Mr. Speaker, that your successor will uphold to the full the traditions of this House and its prestige and that he will exercise the authority of


the Chair with humour, with dignity, with modesty, with a light but firm hand and with absolute impartiality. I have much pleasure in moving the motion.

3.19 p.m.

Sir Derek Walker-Smith: It is with a keen sense of privilege and pleasure, Mr. Speaker, that I rise to second the motion moved in such persuasive and felicitous terms by my old and valued friend the Father of the House.
To add to what he has so fittingly said is in itself something of a work of supererogation. Nevertheless, I am grateful for the opportunity of voicing my support and adding my meed of praise to the right hon. Gentleman who is the subject of this motion.
Before doing so, Sir, may I be allowed to add my sincere and respectful tribute to those so properly and eloquently bestowed upon you today? It has twice been my privilege to second your election as Speaker. On each occasion my prophecy as to your continuing excellence in the position that you have adorned was wholly and abundantly confirmed. Your Speakership was the parliamentary climax of a career of vast achievement and versatile endeavour. Finis coronas opus: the end has crowned your work. As one who has enjoyed the privilege of your friendship over many years, may I salute your services? We shall cherish always the recollection of the distinction which your presence and your Speaker-ship have brought to our proceedings.
To follow such a Speaker would he no easy task for any man, but for the right hon. Member for Cardiff, West (Mr. Thomas) it will be less difficult than for most. The right hon. Gentleman, like yourself, is a Welshman. The nearest affinity that I can claim in that regard is that I had a Welsh grandmother. I am proud of that fact, although, of course, it does not have the special efficacy attributed to the position of a Scottish grandmother, of which it is said that it will not save a man from falling into sin but at least it will prevent him from enjoying it.
The right hon. Gentleman is not only a Welshman and an orator; he is a lay preacher, and in that regard I can certainly claim no affinity. When, as

Speaker, he has from time to time to make exhortation to the House, he may perhaps look, for his text, to the 14th Chapter of the First Epistle of St. Paul to the Corinthians:
Let all things be done decently and in order".
I trust that when that exhortation is made, it will receive the political equivalent of ecumenical assent.
On the right hon. Gentleman can fittingly be bestowed the title which Gladstone proudly bestowed upon himself—that of being an old parliamentary hand. That title is not to be won by the mere effluxion of time. It needs also a knowledge of the ways and workings of this ancient and idiosyncratic institution—a knowledge which comes only from dedication to its service and devotion to its purposes.
That dedication and that devotion the right hon. Gentleman has exhibited through the years of his membership, to the benefit of the House and the furtherance of its work. His contribution here has been characterised not only by its quality but by the manner of its making. He is richly endowed with those qualities that make a good parliamentarian and a much-loved colleague—not only eloquence and judgment, although he has both in good measure, but courtesy and consideration, affability and sensibility, kindliness and good humour, and a wit that often scores but never wounds.
For 30 years, the right hon. Gentleman has brought those qualities to our proceedings and lived with us on equal terms. Now we are to elevate him by bestowing on him the highest honour in our power. We do so gladly and gratefully, but with a little tinge of sadness, for one reason and one reason alone. In a way, the high office of Speaker withdraws a man from his fellows. It necessarily substitutes a sort of lofty solitude for the lively camaraderie of our parliamentary exchanges. The Speaker, in a sense, is with us but not of us. Almost, he is in the position in which Addison described himself as being in the first issue of the Spectator, nearly 300 years ago:
I live in the world rather as a spectator of mankind than as one of the species.
But the Speaker is no mere passive spectator. He not only surveys the


scene; he sets it. He not only observes the cast; he arranges their exits and their entrances. For us in this House, the Speaker is arbiter and counsellor, president and friend. For all that, the right hon. Gentleman is fully and eminently equipped.
If I were to seek to embark on a comprehensive catalogue of the right hon. Gentleman's manifold excellence and diverse attainments, I should detain the House much longer than I would wish. Right hon. and hon. Members would weary not of his excellence but of my iteration. Therefore, I would say in conclusion only this: sometimes, in the observations that I venture to address to the House, and also, occasionally, as a sort of seventh unofficial language in the other Assembly in which I sit, I introduce a little modest Latinity. But not on this occasion. Let me, as parliamentarians should, follow a precedent, though not with the grace of expression, naturally, of the hon. Member for Carmarthen (Mr. Evans). Let me say to the right hon. Gentleman, in another ancient language, reflecting another ancient culture, but this time a living language, Duw fo gyda chi, a hwyl fawr yn y gwaith o'ch blaen: in English, "God speed and good fortune in the task that lies ahead." In expressing this wish, I speak for myself and from my heart, with the affection of an old friend and the admiration of a parliamentary colleague, but I am confident that, in so doing and in commending the motion to the House, I have the collective consent and cordial concurrence of all those here assembled.

3.26 p.m.

Mr. George Thomas: In accordance with ancient custom, I submit myself to the will of the House. Before expressing thanks to the right hon. Gentlemen who have proposed and seconded my election, I wish to add my tribute to those already paid to you, Sir, in rightly glowing terms by the Leaders of the respective parties in the House.
For close on two years, it has been my rare privilege to serve as Chairman of Ways and Means and Deputy Speaker under your leadership. Your kindness, consideration and compassion have placed me in your debt for ever. Your friendship is something that I shall always treasure. The House will understand

how deeply grateful I am to the First and Second Deputy Chairmen of Ways and Means, with whom it has been a pleasure to work for the past two years. Knowing your dislike of calling two Privy Councillors on the same side in succession, I wondered whether I would succeed in catching your eye.
I am profoundly moved by the kindness of my two long-standing friends, the right hon. Member for Vauxhall (Mr. Strauss) and the right hon. and learned Member for Hertfordshire, East (Sir D. Walker-Smith) for the over-generous terms in which they spoke. My Welshness made me tolerant of their exaggeration. I have been nurtured in the tradition that there are times when exaggeration is properly permitted—at weddings and funerals, and in the election of the Speaker of this ancient and honourable House.
It is more than three decades since I entered this Chamber as a new Member. I shall never forget the sense of awe that overcame me on my first day in the House. My right hon. Friend, if the House will allow me so to refer to him for the last time, the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs sat next to me on that first day, as he has so kindly done today, at my request. We both had the privilege, along with the then hon. Members for Cardiff, North and Cardiff, North-West, to represent constituencies in the capital city of Wales. The deep gratitude that I feel towards the electors of Cardiff, West, and to the men and women who have worked so hard to keep me in this place, will be understood by all right hon. and hon. Members.
This is a proud day for the Principality of Wales, Mr. Speaker. With your permission, I shall quote the two opening lines of our Welsh National Anthem.

The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr. James Callaghan): Sing them, George.

Mr. Thomas: I have too much compassion for that. The two opening lines read:
Mae hen wlad fy nhadau
Yn annwyl i mi.
Or, in English:
The land of my fathers Is dear unto me.


Once only in the long history of this House has a Welsh constituency Member been elected to the high and responsible office of Mr. Speaker. That was in 1685, when Sir John Trevor, the Member for Denbigh, was called to the Chair. The poor man suffered from a squint in both eyes. That led to considerable confusion, as he was Speaker at a time when the occupant of the Chair pointed at the Member whom he intended to speak. If the House honours me with its trust today, I hope that there will be no similar doubt about whom I call.
Cardiff has been represented in this House since 1542, but this is the first time in the ensuing 434 years that one of its Members has been nominated for the Chair. Therefore, I am all the more conscious of the honour in being proposed as your successor, Mr. Speaker. Members of Parliament carry a high trust, but to be selected by one's fellow citizens to exercise judgment on their behalf is both a privilege and a mighty responsibility.
We live in a different world from that which we knew when first I entered this place, but the House adapts itself to the changing demands of the society it seeks to serve. None the less, the basic rôle of the House remains unchanged, in that it will always be the guardian of the people's lights and liberties.
Britain is a parliamentary democracy, and anything that undermines the dignity and authority of the House is a threat to our democratic way of life. Within the House Mr. Speaker is the guardian of the rights and privileges of every hon. Member seeking to discharge his duty. It is the responsibility of the occupant of the Chair to protect minority rights without totally disregarding majority rights. If the House honours me with its trust today I shall do my utmost to further that duty.
No one in the Chamber is more conscious than am I of my limitations for the high office of Speaker. I conclude by telling the House that if it decides to call me to that Chair. God Almighty being my helper, I shall strive to the utmost to serve the House with impartiality and without fear or favour.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That the right honourable George Thomas do take the Chair of this House as Speaker.

Mr. Speaker: It only remains for me to congratulate my successor and offer him my sincere good wishes, and to take leave of the House.
Then Mr. SPEAKER left the Chair, and the SERJEANT AT ARMS laid the Mace under the Table.
Whereupon Mr. GEORGE THOMAS was conducted to the Chair by Mr. GEORGE STRAUSS and Sir DEREK WALKER-SMITH.

Mr. Speaker-Elect (standing on the upper step): Before I assume the Chair as Speaker-Elect, I want once again to thank the House for its confidence in me. I pray that I shall prove worthy of that confidence and that all of us will maintain the high traditions of this place.

Mr. SPEAKER-ELECT: Mr. SPEAKER-ELECT Sat down in the Chair.
Then the Mace was placed upon the Table.

3.36 p.m.

The Prime Minister: It falls to me, Mr. Speaker-Elect, to congratulate you and express the pleasure of the House on your election to the Chair.
On the last occasion when a new Speaker-Elect was chosen there was widespread criticism, not of the right hon. Member elected but of the manner in which it was done, and particularly of the feelings about the lack of consultation with hon. Members in all parts of the House. Today there can be no criticisms or reservations on either count.
You are the first occupant of the Chair, Mr. Speaker-Elect, to be elected under the new procedures adopted by the House following the Report of the Select Committee on Procedure just four years ago.
Over recent weeks there were the fullest consultations among Back Benchers and it is only now, following those consultations and the result of them, that I feel it appropriate to reveal that the Cabinet, had it been asked to express a public recommendation, would have recorded its unanimous support for the proposition which has just been endorsed. I happen to know that is true. I have every reason to feel that that would have been the posture of the Opposition Front Bench and, indeed, of all parties. But it is a


fact that the initiative in your selection came exclusively from Back Benchers, expressed through party meetings and in other ways.
You therefore enter on your task, Mr. Speaker-Elect, with the total good will and confidence of all of us. My own pleasure in congratulating you stems from personal grounds as well as my conviction that the House has taken the right decision. You and I were among that group of new Members who first took their seats after the 1945 General Election. Those who have sat continuously since then are now down to just over 20 against over 300 who came here on that August day. Among those 20 are your predecessor, the retiring Speaker, and the seconder of the motion, the right hon. and learned Member for Hertfordshire, East (Sir D. Walker-Smith).
One reason for many of us being anxious to propose your election as Chairman of Ways and Means and Deputy Speaker was our recollection of your distinguished membership of the Chairmanship Panel, whose members used to officiate on the troubled Committee stages of the Finance Bill and other legislation. It is almost 25 years since I led the Opposition team in Committee when you presided over our lengthy examination of the Cotton Bill of 1953.
In paying tribute a few minutes ago to your predecessors I referred, as have others, to the loneliness of the Speakership but also to the Speaker's approachability. I have no doubt, Mr. Speaker-Elect, knowing you, that you will continue the agreeable custom followed by the departing Speaker in allowing right hon. and hon. Members in all parts of the House to call on him. Perhaps, however—I am sure that, knowing you, you will do this—you will be prepared to give the House, at a convenient moment when you have had time to consider the matter, a ruling on whether, so far as liquidity is concerned, we should bring our own entertainment with us. In that connection, Mr. Speaker-Elect, again knowing you, I deprecate that speculative rush on the part of the right hon. and hon. Members to buy up stocks of "Mr. Speaker" whisky, while they last, in order to ensure that their scarcity value is laid down for their respective posterities.
Mr. Speaker-Elect, your devotion to this House, your knowledge not only of its procedures and practices but also of the sometimes indefinable special code which governs our proceedings, is only one of the qualifications which we commend. We all honour you for your deep humanity and your knowledge of people—a humanity born in you in the Rhondda and expressed in your distinguished service to the Church of which you have been Vice-President, and whose members you have addressed and led in almost every town and village of this country and continents abroad.
Again, if I may pick up something that was said earlier, never has the compassion of any Member of this House been so tested, as a Minister, as in the tragedy of Aberfan, when I saw you there with the most difficult task of all—namely, comforting the bereaved parents as each new body was brought into the chapel and visiting each bereaved home. That compassion was allied with determination when months afterwards, almost single-handed, you secured the decisions and the money to remove those overhanging and frightening tips which were still striking terror in the hearts of the people of Aberfan.
One of the first rôles of honour which you were called upon to play as Secretary of State for Wales was an important and indeed bilingual rôle at the Investiture of the Prince of Wales—a rôle in which few not in the know could have guessed that your mastery of your mother tongue was of only a few weeks' origin.
It is a good thing, Mr. Speaker-Elect, that we have had the rulings of your predecessors forbidding the use of the Welsh language in our parliamentary proceedings, despite some minority dissatisfaction. Despite your record in this matter, it is perhaps as well that that ruling should continue once today is over. It is not an easy language for some of us and the tablets record—I have always treasured this—your opening words to a distinguished Lord Mayor, when instead of addressing him as Arglwydd Faer—Lord Mayor—you called him Arglwydd lor, which is translatable as "Almighty God". I am happy to feel that from now on I shall have to address you in English, or I do not know what you might be called!


I shall feel happy that once the Royal approbation has been received we shall be able to call you "Mr. Speaker". We all know your warmth, compassion, humanity and devotion. I hope that I transcend the rules neither of order nor of sensitivity when I say what all your friends are thinking, as we know you are, and that is how sad it is that "Mam" is not here today.
All your great qualities are matched by a devotion to this House, its conventions and idiosyncrasies. You have a deep knowledge of procedure enriched now by two years as Chairman of Ways and Means and Deputy Speaker, but over and above the knowledge of procedure you have that love of the House, that sense of what the House wants and needs that, I believe, will enable you to rank among the great Speakers in history.

3.45 p.m.

Mrs. Margaret Thatcher: Mr. Speaker-Elect, I welcome and congratulate you as our 153rd Speaker. It is 600 years since Sir Peter de la Mare was elected by the Commons to act as their spokesman. You have now attained the highest office that the House can bestow on one of its Members.
You will occupy the Chair with pride—pride on behalf of your constituents and your beloved Wales, which you have served so long and so well.
Your Methodist connections have been referred to, and my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Hertfordshire, East (Sir D. Walker-Smith) has already given you some advice about the text to select for your next sermon. After you have become Mr. Speaker, you will no doubt consider taking as another text a passage from Proverbs, Chapter 17, which must have been designed for Speakers:
He that bath knowledge spareth his words.
In your apprenticeship as Deputy Speaker, the House has already seen you apply that impartiality, dignity and judgment which are the essential equipment of your office.
This is not a party political day; it is a House of Commons occasion. I am happy to follow the lead of a former Tory Prime Minister, Sir Robert Peel, in earnestly supporting a Speaker from a different party. Sir Robert said that in an election for the Chair the needs of the

House should be put first. In that same spirit we join in honouring you today as the Speaker of our choice.
Like the right hon. Member for Devon, North (Mr. Thorpe), I have been looking at precedents for Welsh Speakers—indeed, I think that we have all been looking at the same books! Mr. Speaker William Williams, the first Welsh Speaker, has already been mentioned in connection with a Member called Sir Robert Peyton. In contrast to his behaviour the House will be aware of the gentle and peace-loving nature of my right hon. Friend the Member for Yeovil (Mr. Peyton).
Many people have spoken and written of the qualities required of a Speaker. Some Speakers have had exceptional qualities. Others, in the words of one commentator, have had not so much rare qualities but
common qualities in a rare degree".
Whichever it be, Speaker after Speaker in history has risen to the demands of great and sometimes unexpected parliamentary occasions.
Mr. Speaker Lenthall, described as an unspectacular lawyer, turned out to be the most spectacular and courageous defender of the rights and liberties of the Commons. Past Speakers have protected our liberties so that we in our turn may be better able to protect and enhance the liberties of the people whom we serve.
As you step into that lonely Chair, Mr. Speaker-Elect, your heart will be full.
It has been said that
Without the support of the House a Speaker can do nothing; with that support there is little he cannot do.
We shall give you that support freely and gladly, confident that you will add another illustrious chapter to the history of the great office of Speaker.

3.49 p.m.

Mr. Jeremy Thorpe: Mr. Speaker-Elect, I congratulate you warmly and wish you well in your office. Were it not out of order, I would draw on the language of one of my grandparents and say Y Path Fuddigoliaeth—"What a great victory"—for the House of Commons that you have become our Speaker-Elect.
When you were elected Chairman of Ways and Means in 1974, I confess that I was a little sad on one count, since I would no longer hear the Lobby Clerk


call "Thomas, George, Methodist, Labour". However, there was some compensation when we could go into the Tea Room and hear your unmistakable laughter through the dense haze of cigar smoke, enjoying the pleasure of the company of your colleagues, usually at a Welsh table—although I hasten to say that your friendships span the ecumenical divide, taking in those of all political parties and nations. In the present climate that may not be a bad thing.
You have given great service to your political colleagues from whom you have been neutralised since 1974. It is not the time to speak of that. You have also given great service to your Church, the Commonwealth and to Wales. One of your most proud moments must have been when you became a Freeman of Cardiff. You now have a further opportunity to serve your colleagues. In a sense you will have to be somewhat withdrawn from us. I am certain that you will remain the same right hon. Gentleman whom some of us have known for 15 or 20 years.
It was perhaps not quite adroitly put, but I think that the point was well illustrated in the story that I heard of you when you were preaching to an all-negro congregation in Alabama. The preacher got up and said, "Mr. Thomas's face may be white but his heart is just as black as ours."
I hope, Mr. Speaker-Elect, that while you will maintain the dignity of the office, we shall still be asked, "How are you, my son?" and that you will know everyone's Christian name. You start on this great office with enormous good will and affection and the confidence of every one of us that your very greatest triumphs are yet to come.

3.53 p.m.

Mr. Donald Stewart: Mr. Speaker-Elect, may I on behalf of my hon. Friends and myself offer congratulations on your elevation to the Chair. This gives us great pleasure because it has our enthusiastic support. From your service as Chairman of Ways and Means and as Chairman in other directions we knew that when the retiring Speaker announced his intention to leave the Chair there was no necessity to look any further than his deputy for a worthy successor.

We have always been impressed by your knowledge and experience of the procedures of the House, your scrupulous fairness and your kindness to all Members. I speak only for myself when I say that I am delighted to see a Celt occupying the Chair. I say that as another Celt, although I suspect that with your customary fairness it will not give me any advantage over the Anglo-Saxons in catching your eye. From this Bench we look forward with confidence to your enjoying a long and distinguished term as Speaker. May I assure you of our support and our best wishes.

3.55 p.m.

Mr. James Molyneaux: Mr. Speaker-Elect, my right hon. and hon. colleagues did not wish the retirement of your predecessor. Nevertheless, once he had made his decision we were delighted and happy that you should have been chosen to preside over us. We might say that it is with a great sense of relief that we feel we have just got you into the Chair in time. In the recent past we have been discussing a subject called devolution. It has been my fear that perhaps at some stage obstacles might be placed in the way of a candidate representing a constituencey in one of the devolved territories. It is a good thing that that is not so.
We welcome your assurance that you will protect the rights not only of individuals but of minority parties. May I assure you, and perhaps bring you some comfort in so doing, that my colleagues and I will not fall into the trap of regarding ourselves as a minority but will regard ourselves first as Members—together with you and all of our colleagues—of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. If we are ever tempted to have a chip on our shoulder, we can always console ourselves with the thought that although we may be in a minority here we are a majority at home.
On a radio programme last weekend a distinguished predecessor of yours said that he did not think you would need any advice from him about becoming a good Speaker. That will remind you of an informal occasion when some of us were discussing the structure of the Methodist Church. As a mere Anglican I inquired as to the difference in status between an ordained minister and a lay preacher. For once you were rather slow to reply


and it was left to my hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Ulster (Mr. Dunlop), another Methodist lay preacher, to supply the answer. "The answer," my hon. Friend said, "is that the ordained ministers are paid to be good, whereas George and I are good for nothing."
Today, in a sense, we have ordained that you should preside over us. It may be that certain privileges and rewards will flow from that decision. Even if those rewards were entirely withdrawn, we all know that you would still be good.

3.57 p.m.

Mr. Gwynfor Evans: Mr. Speaker-Elect, I should like to say what pleasure it gives me to address you in this way. In your former political incarnation we did not see eye to eye. I have always known you as a good Welshman, proud of your nationality, as you have reminded us this afternoon. We have heard today of other Welsh Speakers. I do not think that any of them was a member, as you are, of the Gorsedd of the Bards, and certainly none of them was a patron of the National Eisteddfod, which this year celebrates its eighth centenary. I do not think that any one of them ever published a long poem in Welsh as you have done.
Although I have always wanted to see the Welsh governing themselves through their own Parliament and consequently not taking too deep a root at Westminster, I confess that to see one distinguished Welshman succeed another of Welsh ancestry in this august office gives me great pleasure. This, at least, has not happened before. With the Lord Chancellor living on the other side of the Terrace the residential Welsh at Westminster are coming within range at any rate of forming their own rugger side.
I have always admired your conduct of the debates of the House as Deputy Speaker. You have always proved yourself to be utterly fair, just and courteous to my colleagues and me and all who belong to the minorities in this House. I join with other right hon. and hon. Members in wishing you years of health, strength and happiness in your lonely office, so that the House may enjoy the benefit of your wisdom and your service here—at least until, perhaps, you decide later to fulfil your career by accepting the

Speakership of a Welsh Parliament. In the meantime boed i wenau'r Net oleuo eich llwybr.

3.59 p.m.

Mr. Michael Roberts: Mr. Speaker-Elect, may I, as your Member of Parliament and one who had the privilege of knowing your mother and who has enjoyed your friendship for many years, offer my congratulations.
I can assure the House that the Speaker-Elect is a model constituent. He has never at any time come to me with any of his problems. I am conscious that in offering you my congratulations I am, for once anyway, speaking for the whole of the Principality. Today, for the first time since 1685, a sitting Welsh Member becomes Speaker of the House of Commons. This will bring joy and pride throughout Wales and to Welshmen wherever they live. Welshmen will be particularly happy to think that the fine qualities you demonstrated at the Investiture will now be used in your new office.
We are mindful, too, of the part you have played in cementing the link between the Church and Nonconformity in Wales and how you have helped to bring harmony where far too much bitterness once prevailed.
The capital city, which you have represented with such distinction for more than 30 years, and your home town, the borough of Rhondda, reflect the thoughts and feelings of the Welsh people. We have made no secret over the years of what we think of you. You have the freedom of the city and the freedom of the borough. We look to you again on this special day with admiration for your great achievement, with respect for the integrity of your public service and with warmth and affection for you. We are gratified that our views are so clearly held throughout the United Kingdom.
Mr. Speaker-Elect, may I conclude by wishing you happiness and good fortune in your great and arduous task.

4.2 p.m.

The Prime Minister: Mr. Speaker-Elect, I have to signify that it is Her Majesty's pleasure that this House should present their Speaker on this day at 4.30 o'clock in the House of Peers for Her Majesty's Royal Approbation.


Since we have to be there by 4.30, hon. Members may wish to foregather at around 4.25 p.m.

4.3 p.m.

Sitting suspended till 4.25 p.m.

On resuming—

Message to attend the Lords Commissioners:

The House went:—and, having returned;

Mr. Speaker: I have to report to the House that this House has been to the House of Peers, where Her Majesty has been graciously pleased to signify by her Lords Commissioners her approbation of the choice of myself as Speaker of this House.
My first duty to the House is to repeat my respectful acknowledgments of the honour it has done me and the confidence that it has reposed in me, and to renew the assurance of my entire devotion to the service of the House.

Resolved, nemine contradicente,
That an Humble address be presented to Her Majesty praying Her Majesty that she will be most graciously pleased to confer some signal mark of her Royal favour upon the right hon. Selwyn Lloyd, for his eminent services during the important period in which he has, with such distinguished ability and dignity, presided in the Chair of this House; and assuring Her Majesty that whatever expense Her Majesty shall think fit to be incurred upon that account this House will make good the same.—[The Prime Minister.]

To he presented by Privy Councillors or Members of Her Majesty's Household.

Ordered,
That Mr. Oscar Murton he Chairman of Ways and Means, that Sir Myer Galpern be First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means and that Mr. Bryant Godman Irvine be Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means.—[The Prime Minister.]

ADJOURNMENT

Resolved,
That this House do now adjourn.—[Miss Margaret Jackson.]

Adjourned accordingly at Twelve minutes to Five o'clock.